The message is partially correct but misleading.
Lawyer’s added view – Bank Joint Account in Malaysia
March 8th, 2010 · 12 Comments
Did you ever receive email with the following content?
“Please check before it is too late.
Subject: Bank Joint Account in Malaysia (Must Read)
Dear All, this is true and it has been confirmed with a lawyer……..
Good article !!! I received it from my friend about the Bank Joint Account in Malaysia.
“Just to share with you one recent article I read and shocked me a lot..
In response to the above email, a senior lawyer, Mr Tong Soo Tim, had kindly shared his view as stated below:
“I have read it and find that it represents an unbalanced view of the situation and it causes me concern.
This is my addition to the partial information in the article.
In theory there is such thing as Joint Tenancy versus Tenancy in Common. This is in English and Common Civil Law. If you actually ask most bank officers in Malaysia or even some lawyers in Malaysia, they wouldn’t be able to tell you what is Joint Tenancy or Tenancy in Common. This is because we don’t have exactly the same law as in England.
I know that some Malaysian banks have something called “Survivorship Clause“. This is more easily understood….to mean that if there is 2 or more names in a joint-account, the survivor (the one who didn’t die) gets to have all the money in the joint account.
I believe, though I have not checked with all the banks, that you can ask if they have this clause. It is a separate paper for both the account holders to sign when opening, or sometimes even after the account have been opened previously, in order to say that the account holders themselves, opt for this “Survivorship Clause”.
There are pro-and-con for Joint Tenancy and Tenancy in Common. While in the email below, it draws up a scenario where it may seem like a hardship for a wife (widow) not to have access to the bank accounts directly and immediately, but the fact is that, if the widow is to have all the money, sometimes there’s no guarantee the widow is actually the rightful person to have the money.
For example, 1. The deceased has parents, and children, besides the widow. The money should be shared between all of them. 2. The widow is only family…but they are separated, and pending divorce. The deceased may have done a Will to give his money to his brothers or sisters instead of his separated wife.
The freezing of account may be frustrating and problematic in some genuine cases…but to just allow widows or widowers to take out money from their joint-accounts may cause injustice in some cases.
Another scenario could be in the case of Joint accounts between a old parent and one of his 4 or 5 children. If the joint-account holder is allowed to just take out the money, it may be a temptation for the child not to honor his old parent’s instructions to share the money with all the children. This is actually a Breach of Trust. But if the money is already taken out, and there is a blanket policy of “Joint Tenancy”, then the other children have absolutely no cause in law to challenge the “joint-account holder child”.
Hope this helps to balance the article’s point a bit. Emotional approach is appealing, but it is sometimes not accurate nor even right. While we all wish for life to be more convenient, there are usually good reasons for legal processes…the law and lawyers are not here just to make life difficult ;-)”
This is the viral message referred to:
IS THIS TRUE?
Lets talk about our own country now.
Subject: JOINT ACCOUNT IN MALAYSIA 马来西亚联名银行户口不理的后果
Especially non Muslim in cthis country..
I read an article about Jabatan Agama hold ‘VERY substantial’ amount of
money from non Muslim, now I can understand how & why. Those with ‘JOINT
ACCOUNT’ must read and understand !!
I came to know of such practice when I did my financial planning course.
From hence forward, whenever I knew of anyone who is critically sick, I would ask them about any joint account in the bank. If they do & if one of the account holder has just passed away, the other account holder should immediately withdraw (don’t close the account) & leave RM20.00 to maintain the minimum balance required. Tone down “black” clothing when going to the bank as the tellers/officers would be on the lookout for such case. Make the withdrawal first before placing the obituary announcement – banks have a section which screens through this section in all newspapers.
When my father-in-law passed away, he held a joint account with a son on the sum of RM5,000. As soon as my brother-in-law try to close the account presenting the death certificate, the bank denied payment and informed to get clearance from the Prime Minister’s Dept or the Jabatan Agama. After about slightly more than a year, my brother-in-law managed to withdraw the money with a payment of RM500 to Jabatan Agama.
What the heck, after all we are not Muslim. Why our assets are subjected to be deducted for the payment to Jabatan Agama? Until today I am still
unable to understand the whole procedure.
Husband & Wife, Parent & Child or Siblings Joint Account In Malaysia Good article !!! I received it from my friend about the Bank Joint Account in Malaysia.
“Just to share with you one article I read and shocked me a lot. It happened in west Malaysia, about a husband and wife and one son. The husband passed away due to accident. The husband had a RM50,000 joint saving account with wife in a local bank. What happened is the wife, like most people think, when husband passes away, she will get the money automatically since it is a joint account. But to her surprise, she could not withdraw even a single cent from the bank. Joint saving account is meant for convenience when spouse needs it the most.
But most people always assume once the other holder dies, another half will get the money automatically which is very wrong.
I would like to share my opinion with all of you, you may take it as educational thoughts or for you to be aware. When one person dies, the other joint holder of the saving account will get the money automatically only if that particular bank practise ‘JOINT TENANCY’.
This terms means one party die, the other joint party gets money automatically.
But unfortunately, not all banks practise “JOINT TENANCY”, some foreign banks practise and most local banks don’t practise. If you want to be sure, just ask your bank whether your joint saving account based on “JOINT TENANCY”. If it is yes, get the black and white.
Can you all imagine, when husband passes away, the wife already suffers
emotional loss. Now she will have to suffer the problem of having ‘NO MONEY’, although it is in joint account.
Because of husband’s ignorance, now the wife and the son have to pay for
Please take note. And share with your relatives and friends.
我读过一篇关于 Jabatan Agama 持有“非常大量”的
从此以后，每当我知道有人病重时，我都会询问他们在银行的任何联名账户。 如果他们这样做并且其中一个账户持有人刚刚去世，另一个账户持有人应立即退出（不要关闭账户）并留下 RM20.00 以维持所需的最低余额。 去银行时要减少“黑色”的衣服，因为出纳员/官员会注意这种情况。 在发布讣告之前先取款 – 银行有一个部分可以在所有报纸上浏览此部分。
当我的岳父去世时，他与一个儿子共同持有RM5,000的账户。 当我的姐夫试图关闭出示死亡证明的账户时，银行拒绝付款并通知总理部或 Jabatan Agama 获得许可。 大约一年多后，我的姐夫设法提取了 RM500 的钱给 Jabatan Agama。
什么鬼，毕竟我们不是穆斯林。 为什么我们的资产会因支付给 Jabatan Agama 的款项而被扣除？ 直到今天我还在
马来西亚夫妻、父母子女或兄弟姐妹联名账户 好文章！！！ 我从我的朋友那里收到了关于马来西亚银行联名账户的信息。
“只是想和大家分享一篇我读过的文章，让我很震惊。它发生在西马，关于一对夫妻和一个儿子。丈夫因意外去世。丈夫有一个RM50,000的联合储蓄账户，与 妻子在当地银行工作。发生的事情是妻子，就像大多数人想象的那样，丈夫去世后，她会自动拿到钱，因为这是一个联名账户。但让她惊讶的是，她连一分钱都提不出来。 银行。联名储蓄账户是为了在配偶最需要它时提供便利。
我想与大家分享我的观点，您可以将其作为教育思想或让您意识到。 当一个人去世时，储蓄账户的另一个联名持有人将自动获得这笔钱，前提是该特定银行实行 ‘JOINT TENANCY’。
但不幸的是，并非所有银行都实行“JOINT TENANCY”， 一些外资银行实行而大多数本地银行不实行。 如果您想确定，只需询问您的银行您的联名储蓄账户是否基于“JOINT TENANCY”。 如果是，请获取黑白。
Clause 条款 :
“Joint Tenancy” 联合租赁
“Survivorship Clause” 生存条款
“Joint with Rights of Survivorship” 与生存权联合
Rich people use this bank 有钱人用的银行。
Standard Chartered 渣打银行
Joint Bank Accounts: What Happens If One of The Account Holders Dies?
Most joint account holders assume that upon death of a joint account holder, the surviving joint account holder will be the owner of the monies in the joint account. Is this true?
First, let us explore some of the basic features of a joint bank account.
- Transactions for joint accounts can be done by both (or all, if there are more than 2) joint account holders, where it is termed as “both to sign”; or
- Transactions for joint accounts can be done by either one of the joint account holders,where it is termed as “either to sign”;
- Some banks in Malaysia include as part of the joint account opening mandate termed as“survivorship clause” which means in the event of death of one of the joint account holder,the surviving joint account holder is entitled to the monies in the joint account.
There are court precedents that have decided that the joint account holder does not own all the monies in the joint account but rather that he holds in trust any portion taken out that is not his;
- It should be noted that a “survivorship clause” does not confer legal ownership rights tothe surviving joint account holder other than for his own share because the law here forjointly owned assets is based on tenancy-in-common law and not joint tenancy law. Suchclauses are included by a bank in its terms and conditions for its own protection to free itfrom liability should the surviving joint account holder withdraw monies from the jointaccount when the other joint account holder dies. It is a contractual arrangementbetween the account holders and the bank and not a testamentary disposition thatspecifically gives ownership right upon death to the surviving joint account holder.
- Joint bank accounts that do not have the survivorship mandate will be suspended orfrozen upon notice being given to the bank as to the death of a joint account holder evenif the joint account is “either to sign”.
Let us assume there is a joint account in the name of A and B and either one of them can deal with the joint account at any time.
Upon death of A, B, without informing the bank of the death of A, made withdrawals from the joint bank account through the automated teller machine (ATM). Can B do so and would B be able to keep those monies withdrawn after the death of A?
The answer is as follows, whether the joint account has a survivorship mandate or not:
- Upon death of A, the monies in the joint account would under the law be owned half by A’sestate and half by B;
- In the event B withdraws monies for more than his portion as mentioned above, B would be acting as trustee (for A’s estate) for the amount withdrawn in excess of B’s portion. Therefore, B would be liable to return the excess amount to the estate of A and the failure to do so will give cause for A’s estate to take legal action against B;
- In the event B withdrew monies before A’s death when it is an “either to sign” arrangement,there would be no recourse against B because such withdrawal is
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